47.7°E Nemesis 1 [P360/PAN]

    • Offizieller Beitrag

    As you probably read at Gunter's etc., P360/PAN is a rather "secret" satellite with little info online. Always close to Yahsat 1B at 47.6°, for eavesdropping maybe. You may well be receiving Yahsat instead that also uses the military Ka-band.


    The Satellite Encyclopedia says for P360/PAN: "Has carriers on 20.298, 20.402 & 20.700 GHz."

    • Offizieller Beitrag

    OK, thanks hvdh for the details. :73:
    unfortunately, no signal on frequencies mentioned


    20298 20402 20700

    • Offizieller Beitrag

    Impossible.


    This is not Yahsat 1B, I am totally sure, when I am at 47.6°, I can't see the 47.7°E frequencies.


    The satellites are very close but in KA band you need to be perfectly aligned.


    Here is the scan of 47.6°E:


    The first scan of 47.7°E (full band)


    both: you see , the strong signal of 47.5° decrease and is nearly not visible when the antenna is at 47.7°


    Am I wrong ?

    • Offizieller Beitrag

    Amazing, so much difference when turning just 0.2°! :42:


    Yahsat 1B, I'm sure is at 47.6°E nominal.


    The P360/PAN location is quite uncertain, only based on optical amateur observations like all classified satellites. And often just one TLE every 1 or 2 months (last one: 8 July). Unfortunately, I never backed up old TLE's of these satellites.


    But what I do when a new TLE is issued, is check the average longitude around epoch day, round it to the nearest 0.1°, and update that on my sats.htm page. When I look back old in backups of my page of the last 2 years or so, both 47.6°E and 47.7°E are listed about equally.


    So, a lot of uncertainty. Let's hope for more frequent updates during the dark winter months!

    • Offizieller Beitrag
    Zitat

    Original von hvdh
    Amazing, so much difference when turning just 0.2°! :42:


    Yahsat 1B, I'm sure is at 47.6°E nominal.


    The P360/PAN location is quite uncertain, only based on optical amateur observations like all classified satellites. And often just one TLE every 1 or 2 months (last one: 8 July).
    So, a lot of uncertainty. Let's hope for more frequent updates during the dark winter months!



    OK, all clear now with your latest informations about TLE update , maybe it is not exactly 47.7°E but it's very close to 47.5°E .
    :73:

    • Offizieller Beitrag

    Finally, today I realized, there are also signals in KA Band A
    between 18300 and 1800 in RHCP and LHCP but nothing found
    (fake scan result)


    any help ?

    • Offizieller Beitrag

    Again the question is, can you still separate Yahsat 1B from P360/PAN ?
    Because according TLE's they are very close right now, both near 47.65°E.
    In the early morning should be better with at least 0.1° separation.


    Yahsat 1B has:
    21 * 54 MHz transponders in band 20.2...21.2 GHz, and
    25 * 110 MHz transponders somewhere in band 17.7...20.2 GHz.
    Signals have been reported in band 19.7...20.2 already but surely more sub-bands are used, for a total bandwidth of 2750 MHz!

    • Offizieller Beitrag

    Well, today I am more confused for this position, this is not Yahsat it's now sure but according to this new lock in the oposite polarisation, I can read a PID Table referring abot47.5°E, but I repeat, this is not Yahsat 47.5°E , I move a little bit to the east to see the Yahsat spectrumand this is not a satellite in inclined orbit., :88:


    47.7°E (?) in LHCP and RHCP, and just to confirm that is not Yahsat , the spectrum in LHCP

    • Offizieller Beitrag

    Nothing really to be confused about, if I understand you correctly?
    P360/PAN is close, but always east of Yahsat as I recall from TLE's.
    And you can separate Yahsat (47.6°E) from P360/PAN (47.7°E).
    Both are not inclined.
    So this 47.5°E mentioned in that table is just a rounded value, not to be taken too literally!

    • Offizieller Beitrag

    http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/nemesis-1.htm
    It has been revealed that this satellite that was codenamed both P360 and PAN (Palladium At Night), is actually the first in a series, named "Nemesis 1".


    The second one "Nemesis 2" was known so far as CLIO.
    CLIO still has a very volatile location like PAN had in the beginning.
    CLIO was seen a month ago at 77.4°E, slowly drifting West. Could be near 75°E now.

    • Offizieller Beitrag

    More about PAN: http://spaceflight101.com/snow…mysterious-pan-satellite/


    Nice graph showing PAN eavesdropping on several satellites, before settling at 47.7°E near Yahsat 1B:

    • Offizieller Beitrag

    Very interesting link !


    it confirmed what we already talk here, the satellite was always place close to a commercial satellite and now we know the reason why.


    Thanks hvdh for having share this .


    Soon, I will keep an eye on it :11:

    • Offizieller Beitrag

    Just my spectrum form position 47.0°E (I think).


    Nothing to lock for me.


    /edit: linear scan.

    Bilder


    • Offizieller Beitrag

    Flysat added a Nemesis 1 entry to the list, well done flie!


    The latest (old) TLE of September suggested this satellite is not inclined, but makes daily movements of almost 1°, between 46.75°E and 47.65°E.
    And in this topic, qwer reported both 47.0°E and 47.7°E.


    If this satellite still does that, I wonder how that should be listed at Flysat...
    Take the average position 47.2°E, and replace the text (P360/PAN) with (46.8...47.6°E) maybe?


    See below the longitude/latitude graph of 24 September 2019 (24 hours). Satellite moves clockwise, every dot is an hour.
    Of course it could be different today.

  • Zitat

    Original von hvdh
    Flysat added a Nemesis 1 entry to the list, well done flie!


    If this satellite still does that, I wonder how that should be listed at Flysat...
    Take the average position 47.2°E, and replace the text (P360/PAN) with (46.8...47.6°E) maybe?


    See below the longitude/latitude graph of 24 September 2019 (24 hours). Satellite moves clockwise, every dot is an hour.
    Of course it could be different today.


    thank you very much hvdh for this useful info :73:
    as you said before ; this satellite has not a fixed position..so Flysat decide to delete it ! :37:

    • Offizieller Beitrag

    Indeed Nemesis 1 was removed from the Sat List, but the page is still online: https://www.flysat.com/nemesis1.php
    A few years ago, the Sicral satellites were removed, he was a bit reluctant about military satellites, but were put back on my request.


    Meanwhile a new TLE of 16 January has this satellite more stable near 47.6°E, close to Al Yah 2 like it usually was.

    • Offizieller Beitrag

    This satellite has been observed drifting away from 47.7°E since the spring of 2021.

    https://sattrackcam.blogspot.c…s-1-is-on-move-again.html

    Still slowly drifting East, near 53.0°E now, and near 53.5°E in 2 weeks.

    Perhaps someone can check in Ka-band C or A, if it is still active during this slow drift?

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