tbs6902se

The TBS6902se card is the updated version of the tbs6902, which with the new M88rs6000 chipset provides support for the DVB-S2X standard.

The chipset is produced by Montage and has the following features,which for many of us might be of interest.I'm going to insert them here as presented by this this manufacturer :

-Multi-standard demodulator and tuner

-Demodulation: QPSK, 8PSK, 8APSK-L,16APSK(-L), 32APSK(-L)

-Symbol rate up to 45 Msps

-VCM (ACM) / CCM supported

-Multiple stream process

-Symbol rate sweeping

-Auto spectrum inversion

-DVB-S2X/DVB-S2/DVB-S auto identification

-Different roll off options supported.

So far from TBS we have driver version 1.0.0.1,but luckily for us, the same reliable friend of enthusiasts,@CrazyCat(thanks again) has provided us with version 1.0.0.2 (self-signed), which has fixed some bugs and brought some improvements over the Chinese manufacturer's driver.

-fixed I2C access,

-fixed tuner part control,

-MIS + PLS control fixed(like transponders 5.0E,30.0W,etc multistreams),

-extended signal statistic implemented (RFLevel, SNR, BER in BDADataEx fro example),

-Internal BlindScan implementation fixed,

-Streaming for M88RS6060-based devices fixed,

-TBS BLScan2 for M88RS6060 implemented (BLSCan2 with HWControl=0 in streamreader.ini),

-changed TS clock calculation, maybe improve streaming >70mbit transponders.

Test build StreamReaderEx 1.2.4.108 - http://crazycat69.narod.ru/sattelite/Stre…derExEx-BDA.rar

Gold code setup fixed in test build StreamReaderEx 1.2.4.109 - http://crazycat69.narod.ru/sattelite/Stre…derExEx-BDA.rar

For now,this is some information about the new tbs6902se card.I'll be back with tests these days.

II

First of all,it must be said that for now CrazyCat's drivers are the ones that work best with tbs6902se,which provide full or partial support for some functions,those found in dvb applications or players.Being a self-signed driver, which has not been officially released by the manufacturer,its installation is done as describe here.

The test signing mode may start if an installed program is in a test phase because it uses drivers that are not digitally signed by Microsoft.After restarting the computer,you will see in the lower-right corner of the desktop the message "Test Mode", which means that test mode signing mode of the operating system is started on the computer.From now on you can install CrazyCat's driver without any problems,like any Microsoft signed driver.

Tests done so far with the tbs6902 card have revealed some better features than the demod Montage DS3K in terms of RFScan and BLScan2,and in some cases it is much faster and more accurate than the STV091x chipset.

I will use tbs6983,comparing it to the tbs6902se,because the former card is so far the benchmark for other dvb card models,in terms of tuner sensitivity and ability to find and search for weak signals, and/or lock difficult parameters.But the comparison between the two cards is no longer valid for the S2X extension,as the 6983's demod is not equipped with this standard,while the 6902 is able to find the signal with the dvb-s2x parameters.

I was able to check the blindscan speed with this card at 19.2E-Astra 1KR/1L/1M/1N ,where we have more than 100 transponders.With tbs6983,the scan time on the whole Ku band,locking and finding them,was 117.183seconds,while with tbs6902se,without changing the scan steps,it is 70.871 seconds.So far I haven't met a dvb card that is capable of such a (ultra) fast scan,as it machine-guns the found transponders :)

Here's what RFScan & BLScan2 on 19.2E looks like between tbs6983 vs tbs6902SE.

Of course more interesting than a satellite with European spot,such as Astra at 19.2E,which does not pose reception problems, it is good to see how the tuner of 6902se reacts at 0.8W and 1.0W compared to that of 6983, where we have several beams that partially or completely cover different areas of Europe,to which I add the Middle East spot,it can only be received in Europe with large antennas.

It can be observed, as in 1.0W that the search time is better at 6902se than at 6983. I have highlighted in purple the differences between the two cards.

III

Although RFScan and BLScan2 work better with the signal,sometimes even better than other dvb cards, so far the tbs6902se does not support BLScan and IQScan.I still can't figure out why.Maybe it's an internal limitation of the demod,or in another version this problem will be fixed(?). I do not comment on this issue for the time being.

This means that even if the RFScan search finds the parameters (symbol rate, usual auto-detect modulation) of the transponders, they are not stored in the settings, so the symbol rate defaults is 27500 /ks on open "Carrier search dialog".This means that transponders with symbol rate of 27500 are found and locked in the standard search,while for other transponders, the symbol rate has to be entered manually.

Here's how to proceed with the standard and manual search.

VictorLS,I'm trying to answer your questions during the card presentation.Unfortunately for lack of time, I'm going to post on pieces/fragments.

You may already know,but before printing,there's a man who deals with the mistakes of the text,and he's called the Corrector,or the clear head/mind.

Any comment is welcome.

Thanks

qwer,Thanks for "Article" section, but it would be nice to have a preview there too

IV

I have never worked with Montage DS3K based devices and so I don't know what they were capable of.Certainly it is as you say,with limitations,like the ones you mentioned,lack of BLScan and IQScan support.For now,after these preliminary tests and CrazyCat's attempts to update and improve his application,it seems that this M88RS606 chipset seems to suffer from the same (internal)limitation{?!).But I hope that either he,or another developer at TBS will find a solution that will overcome those limitations of the old chipset.

Surely for the same reason, i.e. chipset limitations, there is another disadvantage, the support for ACM/VCM modes are much more restrictive. In fact transponders will always be detected by the card as CCM.

But I am sure this will not be of great importance for an ordinary user, who only wants to receive or watch TV programs.However for a DXer things are different, because with this card he will know which transponder is really in ACM/VCM mode, and which is CCM.Or if not, at least he will be able to know with more approximation which mode is the one used for that transponder.

Of course there are other dvb cards that do not know how to detect ACM/VCM modes, at least with restricted ACM/VCM mode,especially those with Silicon chipset.There are many situations where some dvb cards will detect when the mode ACM / VCM, when in CCM.

For example, the 5.0 W MIS transponders were presented until now as having ACM/VCM mode,because it was found by some cards,say,6983 or 6903x. Now with the 6902se card all these MIS transponders will be found by Crazyscan as being in CCM mode,but more important for all users of this card will be the fact that all PLS codes are auto-detected.

This means that we will no longer have to manually enter this codes to lock the signal and see the parameters,as it was until now with other dvb cards,even with professional ones.It's a big win for all those who use dvb cards,amateurs or dxers.

Besides this autodetection of MIS codes, combined with the speed of searching and locking the signal, it is best seen by comparing what each card can do when scanning MIS transponders at 5.0W. And I also used 6983/6903(dvb-s2) and 6903X cards(dvb-s2x),because they are the most performing cards in terms of hardware(see above).

Here's what a search and scan looks like with the three dvb cards at 5.0W on multistream transponders

.

tbs6902se

tbs6983

tbs6903x

The same MIS test I did at 30.0W,where we have three transponders that have PLS codes.The result is the same as at 5.0W,the best dvb card for locking MIS transponders turned out to be again tbs6902se.Same big differences in transponder finding and search speed between the three cards.But it should be noted that it is auto search and not manual,at the last one you can lock and find the parameters just by entering the pls codes,and if problems,then also add the symbol rate.

tbs6902se:

tbs6983:

tbs6903X:

Although no dvb player has been optimized to scan and lock multistream transponders for tbs6902se card,the one best suited for this is AltDVB 2.4_B5488.And surprise, the player scans these transponders without having to manually add the pls codes,but with one condition,each parameter (symbol rate,fec, mode,etc) must be correctly listed on the search table.And in case of failure then the PLS code is added,as on 11491 V,7522,8/9,8PSK.

Although the DVB Dream player has not been updated and optimized for the latest dvb cards for several years, and seems abandoned by his developer,when I tested it with the tbs6902se card,the player worked fine and did not pose any problems when scanning MIS transponders.

I had to add the pls code,same as AltDVB,for 11491 V,7522,8/9,8PSK to lock it.

[

Also the same mode to lock MIS transponders for SmartDVB as for other dvb players.

I tried to test MIS transponders with ProgDVB,but unfortunately,probably due to a bug, the player crashes.

I add that the MIS transponder,12646 H,13910 ,3/4,8PSK-NURTS Bulgaria at 33.1E,tbs6902se card auto detects it and locked it.

Although the T2-MI (T2 Modulator Interface) signal can be handled by any dvb-s2 card, I thought to show those interested in such satellite transmissions that they can use the 6902se card to receive and watch TV packages without problems provided 1.they have a strong signal,at least 9dB,but better than 10.dB, and 2.have a dedicated application that decodes this type of signal.

I did the test with this card on T2-MI streams at position 54.9E,which in my area the signal with the 1.50m antenna is at the limit. Even in such reception conditions, I must say that the tbs6902se card worked very well with each PLP multistream, in some cases even better than the much more sensitive 6983 tuner.

I used the TSReader and 4T2 Content Analyser apps, but I also used the AltDVB player because they all know how to decode and actually play T2-MI streams, but also because I wanted to test the limit to which these apps can manage this type of signal.

For example, the signal at 12714 V is the weakest of all transponders T2-MI, going down to 6.50dB,difficult to manage the stream by these applications. Or it is known that the TSReader crashes when it has no useful signal to keep the application in working order or the 4T2Constent Analyser is freezing when the signal is weak. And yet, despite this situation, the 6902 card managed to work with both applications without having to restart them, even if the signal is weaker than other cards.

For example, the T2-MI signal on card 6983 is stronger, with at least one 1~1/5 dB, compared to 6902se, and yet if it drop below 8 dB, then the applications mentioned above either crash or freeze, instead 6902se keeps them working and can restore the streams.

Here's how the signal looks on T2-MI streams with tbs6983 and 6902se cards and and T2-MI streams at 12714 V with TSReader,4T2 Content Analyser and AltDVB player:

I have to say that so far I have not come across a dvb card that can cope with the weak T2-MI signal. I think it is the best dvb card, out of all the ones I have tested, to run T2-MI streams under precarious signal conditions.

Regarding the two transponders at 51.5E,11230 H and 11290 H,45000,8/9,8PSK,tbs6902se can run smooth channels without breaks, with a bitrate of 119 Mbit/s, provided that the signal does not drop below 11dB.Under this value appear artifacts ,such as this one on 11230.This is true for any signal that is received below the threshold.

This is what a signal with breaks at 11dB and a normal one looks like with 6902se card:

Because the opportunity arose for an 8K transmission on Turksat 3A at 42.0E, I tested the 6902se card on this program and compared it with the 6983 card. Although the signal with this card seems to be stronger than the 6902se, the Turksat 8K program is running at the same level both in terms of smoothness, but also with few moments of interruptions or artifacts with Smart DVB player. Moreover the bitrate is the same on this 8K program with both cards, of 90.750 Mbit/s.

Quote from VictorLS

@satesco

Can you try and provide CrazyScans's screenshot in underlock (when weak signal - i.e. 51e5 11230h45000 8/9 8PSK not with 11,0dB and 18,0dB as on your screenshot but i.e. 10dB can't be locked due to moving your dish after lock and then close/run CrazyScan with dish standing still dish in 10dB position) situations with 6902se.

...

I'll let the pictures speak for themselves rather than any technical explanation.I'll just say that I brought the signal down to around 11dB and then compared the 6902se card to the 6983, using Crazyscan and the AltDVB and DVB Dream players.

It can be seen that 6902 handles the signal better at the limit than 6983 and confirms what I said at the beginning of this presentation. I highlighted the differences between the two cards at one of the transponders at 51.5E, which I understand you are interested in.

Although I did not lock the signal with Crazyscan at 11dB on 11230 H,45000,8/9,8PSK with the 6983 card,instead with the two players(6902se and 6983),I managed to lock and scan this transponder.You can see the results.

I should have said at the beginning of this presentation that the tbs6902se has two tuners, like its predecessor, the 6902. As with most tbs satellite cards, these tuners allow the user to watch a TV programme with one tuner and record another channel from another satellite.

First of all, I was interested to check if and how the two card tuners work simultaneously when I connect them to two satellite signal sources.

The first tuner,0,I connected to Astra from 19.2E and scanned it with Crazyscan, and the second tuner,1,with another coaxial cable, I connected to Eutelsat 5.0WB at 5.0E and scanned it with the same application. I chose this satellite on purpose because, as we know, here are MIS(MultiInputStreams) transmissions, which have PLS codes, from Italian and French providers.

As I expected,in the first scan test with the 6902se card, the simultaneous search and lock of the signal on the transponders found on the two satellites was almost instantaneous. Almost 17 sec with the first tuner, on the chosen range,10700-11700 H,and with the second tuner, at 5.0W,the signal lock time took almost 19 sec. This is the fastest satellite signal search and lock time a dvb card has achieved, even more so when two tuners were used simultaneously. At least of the ones I tested.

I went further and checked if both tuners were working simultaneously with the same applications (Crazyscan and VLC) on the two satellites to which the card was connected. As you can see from the picture, both tuners were working perfectly at the same time and the two TV programs from two different sources were running smoothly.

Of course I couldn't ignore the test with one of your players. I chose for this, the AltDVB player which has no problem running two TV programs at the same time. And as you can see, both channels from 19.2E and the 5.0W were working perfectly.

Some of the developers of dvb applications neglect their creations. I mean they don't update them to the new technologies that the latest demodulators are equipped with. One such developer is the one who developed the DVB Dream player. He seems to have abandoned it, but despite that, the player works with the tbs6902se card. Blindscan is based on the older library of CrazyCat. I checked the player with blindscan and had it scan Turksat from 42.0E.To my surprise, this function worked well with the tbs6902se card.It found new transponders, memorized new programs and did almost what the Crazyscan application does.

Quote from VictorLS

6902se can show gray Signal/Noise >0 dB without lock when frequency, polarization and SymbolRate are known (i.e. TBS 5520SE on Si2183 demodulator can't):

The signal at 11290 H must be at least 12dB/78% for the card to work normally.In general the 8/9 fec is not user friendly to lock the weak signal,and this transponder has only 11dB,which is not enough. But even at 12dB,you will have a high ber and artifacts.It is a signal at the limit.

I tested the same signal at 11290 H with cards 6983 and 116902se with the AltDVB player. The result is the same with both cards at 12dB on this transponder.

At this Fec-8/9,codec-HEVC,also 8psk,you need some signal reserve to be sure the card works well regardless of the card used.

The comparison between the two cards I made is conclusive from my point of view, because 6983 and 6902se are the best performing dvb cards in terms of signal sensitivity. At least the ones I tested.

Maybe I expressed myself wrong, but I have no signal problems at 52.0E.All transponders analyzed have a very strong signal with 0 BER. You can see this on the analyzer below on both cards-6902se and 6983.I have a great signal reserve on all transponders at 52.0E.

In fact I tried to reproduce, for demonstration purposes, the situation in which you find yourself, with signal at the limit and which creates problems in reception.

As to which tuner is more sensitive than the others on the market, we could debate endlessly. This is not the time and place for such a discussion. But since I have worked with Omicom, I stand by my earlier assessment that the 6983(6903,5927 usb,both having the same demod) and 6902se cards are the most sensitive cards for receiving weak signals,perhaps the former slightly better than the 6983.But how each card handles the weak signals is another discussion.

Here is the actual signal I receive at 52.0E with the 6902se and 6983 cards:

Thanks for your concern As you can see, I have no artifact problems on any of these cards

The TBS6902se card has HW support for the DVB-S2X standard, capable of detecting parameters with this extension.But unlike the demod from, say, STM, ,used for tbs6903X/9X,etc cards,which reads all modulations (CCM, ACM, VCM), this card supports only those in CCM, increasingly used for satellite transmissions.

For comparisons I will use the tbs6903x card,which has S2X extension,and supports all parameters currently used for satellite transmissions(CCM mode,ACM,VCM or PLS code,etc).Although it has an almost complete HW for such transmissions,for this card it is still necessary to manually enter PLS codes to lock the signal and view the content. Instead,as I said before, the 6902se card achieves the unique performance in terms of PLS MIS to automatically lock the signal and find the parameters of such a transponder.

In this regard I checked the 6902se card on the Eutelsat 33E satellite at 33.1E,where we find a variety of parameters used for satellite transmissions, such as the S2X extension for data transponders or the Swiss TV package, Globecast. Also at this position we have the TV package, NURTS Bulgaria, which, having the PLS code, cannot be locked unless the device knows how to do so. Fortunately,the same with the Italian and French MIS packages from 5.0W,the 6902se card manages to automatically detect the transponder with this parameter. Moreover,the card finds and lock the signal to all data transponders on the satellite, regardless of the parameter.

EBSpro has not been updated for a long time, even before the 6902s card was released, but nevertheless, with the StreamReader 1.2.4.109 version,put in the application folder, the blindscan works without problems.

But you should know that for the moment the card does not support BLScan and IQScan functions, but only BLScan2. That's why the results obtained when scanning with EBS are the same as with the Crazyscan.The scan time is still as fast as with the Crazyscan app and finds almost the same number of transponders.

I chose the same satellites, Eutelsat 33E to 33.1E, for tests with EBSpro as for Crazyscan, for the same reasons, i.e. the great variety of parameters used in satellite transmissions. Although the EBSpro utility does not yet have the developer support and has not been updated,the application is able to lock the signal and show the parameters of the transponders found. From this point of view 6902 even surpasses the 6893x performance.

Also the 6902 card is able to scan and store the s2x transponders and PLS code transponders, the saved programs run without problems. The AltDVB player, the latest version does very well.

One of the advantages of dvb cards is the ability to stream to different devices. And the tbs6902se card is no exception, being able to do this regardless of the operating system. I tested this card on Windows using the EBSpro Mobile application.

I chose this application not only because it was specifically designed to help remotely adjust the antenna installation, having at hand the functions of measuring the signal and finding transponders, but also because we could view their content.

For this, as a server, I used my Windows 10 computer and, of course on my phone, I installed the EBSpro Mobile app.

Without going into the details of the application, in fact, the settings are intuitive, you must first activate the EBSpro Mobile function in the application and activate the server-Local (LAN) and then save the settings.

In my case, I didn't use the app to make antenna adjustments, but more to stream to my phone.

As in other cases, EBSpro Mobile was able to detect the tbs6902se card immediately and responded very well to the chosen transponder parameters.

Of course, it is to EBSpro's credit that it is able to highlight the possibilities of a dvb card, especially since the application has not been updated to the new dvb cards. And the tbs6902se is one of these cards, much more powerful than the old tbs6902, equipped to respond to new technologies.

For the tests with the S2X extension I chose as usual the Swiss package from 33.1E, the only TV package with this extension in the European area.EBSpro Mobile instantly displayed on my phone the signal from this transponder-12597 V,10058,25/36, S2X/8PSK, and through the functions it has, I could see on my phone one of the TV programs in the package.

As a curiosity, more to test my phone with the tbs6902se card, I moved the antenna to receive the 4K and 8K programs from 42.0E, on Turksat 3A/4A. I checked on this occasion if the application displays all the information(satellites, channels, etc) from the EBSpro installed on my server/computer. As you can see from the picture, on my phone I could see this data. Fortunately, 4K and 8K streams can be viewed on the phone, less clearly for 8K due to the limited HW support of my phone.