• The TBS6902se card is the updated version of the tbs6902, which with the new M88rs6000 chipset provides support for the DVB-S2X standard.

    The chipset is produced by Montage and has the following features,which for many of us might be of interest.I'm going to insert them here as presented by this this manufacturer :

    -Multi-standard demodulator and tuner

    -Demodulation: QPSK, 8PSK, 8APSK-L,16APSK(-L), 32APSK(-L)

    -Symbol rate up to 45 Msps

    -VCM (ACM) / CCM supported

    -Multiple stream process

    -Symbol rate sweeping

    -Auto spectrum inversion

    -DVB-S2X/DVB-S2/DVB-S auto identification

    -Different roll off options supported.

    So far from TBS we have driver version 1.0.0.1,but luckily for us, the same reliable friend of enthusiasts,@CrazyCat(thanks again) has provided us with version 1.0.0.2 (self-signed), which has fixed some bugs and brought some improvements over the Chinese manufacturer's driver.

    -fixed I2C access,

    -fixed tuner part control,

    -MIS + PLS control fixed(like transponders 5.0E,30.0W,etc multistreams),

    -extended signal statistic implemented (RFLevel, SNR, BER in BDADataEx fro example),

    -Internal BlindScan implementation fixed,

    -Streaming for M88RS6060-based devices fixed,

    -TBS BLScan2 for M88RS6060 implemented (BLSCan2 with HWControl=0 in streamreader.ini),

    -changed TS clock calculation, maybe improve streaming >70mbit transponders.

    Test build StreamReaderEx 1.2.4.108 - http://crazycat69.narod.ru/sat…/StreamReaderExEx-BDA.rar

    Gold code setup fixed in test build StreamReaderEx 1.2.4.109 - http://crazycat69.narod.ru/sat…/StreamReaderExEx-BDA.rar

    For now,this is some information about the new tbs6902se card.I'll be back with tests these days.

    Images

    7 antennas,including 2 of 150cm,one T90 with 16 lnbs
    lnb:Inverto Black Ultra with scalar rings and many Ku lnbs,
    C-band LNB:ESX241,Galaxy Inovations,EuroStar,MTI 20K,NS741U C/Ku,Inverto Single C-band Flange,lnb Chaparral Servo Motor & Skew Control
    LNB Ka:R9216DF XWM,Hughes FSS 19.7-20.2 GHz,
    6 satellite receivers,2 Meters,
    7 PC cards(tbs6983,6903,6590,6522,6209,2603,6909X,6903X,6504),3 tuners usb-tbs5927,tbs5925 & SkyStar USB 2 HD,
    Satellite reception between 100.5E-50.0W,
    Loc:Romania :3:

  • II

    First of all,it must be said that for now CrazyCat's drivers are the ones that work best with tbs6902se,which provide full or partial support for some functions,those found in dvb applications or players.Being a self-signed driver, which has not been officially released by the manufacturer,its installation is done as describe here.

    The test signing mode may start if an installed program is in a test phase because it uses drivers that are not digitally signed by Microsoft.After restarting the computer,you will see in the lower-right corner of the desktop the message "Test Mode", which means that test mode signing mode of the operating system is started on the computer.From now on you can install CrazyCat's driver without any problems,like any Microsoft signed driver.

    Tests done so far with the tbs6902 card have revealed some better features than the demod Montage DS3K in terms of RFScan and BLScan2,and in some cases it is much faster and more accurate than the STV091x chipset.

    I will use tbs6983,comparing it to the tbs6902se,because the former card is so far the benchmark for other dvb card models,in terms of tuner sensitivity and ability to find and search for weak signals, and/or lock difficult parameters.But the comparison between the two cards is no longer valid for the S2X extension,as the 6983's demod is not equipped with this standard,while the 6902 is able to find the signal with the dvb-s2x parameters.

    I was able to check the blindscan speed with this card at 19.2E-Astra 1KR/1L/1M/1N ,where we have more than 100 transponders.With tbs6983,the scan time on the whole Ku band,locking and finding them,was 117.183seconds,while with tbs6902se,without changing the scan steps,it is 70.871 seconds.So far I haven't met a dvb card that is capable of such a (ultra) fast scan,as it machine-guns the found transponders :)

    Here's what RFScan & BLScan2 on 19.2E looks like between tbs6983 vs tbs6902SE.


    XxaCFt5.png

    Dn1BGmn.png


    Of course more interesting than a satellite with European spot,such as Astra at 19.2E,which does not pose reception problems, it is good to see how the tuner of 6902se reacts at 0.8W and 1.0W compared to that of 6983, where we have several beams that partially or completely cover different areas of Europe,to which I add the Middle East spot,it can only be received in Europe with large antennas.


    b3157as.png



    wium3bJ.png

    q9bQtbl.png

    It can be observed, as in 1.0W that the search time is better at 6902se than at 6983. I have highlighted in purple the differences between the two cards.

    7 antennas,including 2 of 150cm,one T90 with 16 lnbs
    lnb:Inverto Black Ultra with scalar rings and many Ku lnbs,
    C-band LNB:ESX241,Galaxy Inovations,EuroStar,MTI 20K,NS741U C/Ku,Inverto Single C-band Flange,lnb Chaparral Servo Motor & Skew Control
    LNB Ka:R9216DF XWM,Hughes FSS 19.7-20.2 GHz,
    6 satellite receivers,2 Meters,
    7 PC cards(tbs6983,6903,6590,6522,6209,2603,6909X,6903X,6504),3 tuners usb-tbs5927,tbs5925 & SkyStar USB 2 HD,
    Satellite reception between 100.5E-50.0W,
    Loc:Romania :3:

  • Third 1w picture must be from TBS 6983 horizontal ;)

    And what about Low SymbolRate (i.e. 8w 12620v840, 8w 12621v468 and 16e 11070h354 radios I can occasionly lock and therefore and without any stutter listen with OMICOM S2 PCI and TBS 5520SE) and ACM(VCM) transponders (below 1000 KiloSymbols/sec = 1000 KS/s - i.e. 40e 10953h640 - if no lock although 40e 11162h1340) receiving by TBS6902SE?

    PS. And what about High SymbolRate transponders receiving with bandwidth more than 111 Mbit/s because USB devices can't show channels because of brake stream from that two transponders from 51e5 11230&11290h45000 8/9 8APSK so bandwidth about 119 Mbit/s?

    [Blocked Image: https://i.postimg.cc/KkNcJYKN/51e5-H-20210830.png]

    But I'm sure it must be easy for 6902SE PCI-E because even my old sweet OMICOM S2 PCI (not tuned as i.e. strannik did https://filatov-yuri.livejournal.com/ in Russian language) receive that transponders well and shows channel for a long time without any problem.

    Russian Crimea, 1200х1100mm on SMR-1224:103E-30W with Ku, Ku cir (both Inverto), С cir (Alyno CM90) + 600mm 36e Ku cir (GI 301)

    Athlon II x3 460 3,4GHz, 690V, 4GB, 0,5(SSD)+2+4TB, GTX750v2 GM206 1GB (h265 4:2:0 4K hardware acceleration), RemoteWonder, Win7x64sp1 RUS, OMICOM S2 PCI, TBS 5520SE (USB so well receiving less than 111 Mbit/s transponders only); standalone tuner GI HD Micro Plus

    Edited 7 times, last by VictorLS ().

  • III


    Although RFScan and BLScan2 work better with the signal,sometimes even better than other dvb cards, so far the tbs6902se does not support BLScan and IQScan.I still can't figure out why.Maybe it's an internal limitation of the demod,or in another version this problem will be fixed(?). I do not comment on this issue for the time being.

    This means that even if the RFScan search finds the parameters (symbol rate, usual auto-detect modulation) of the transponders, they are not stored in the settings, so the symbol rate defaults is 27500 /ks on open "Carrier search dialog".This means that transponders with symbol rate of 27500 are found and locked in the standard search,while for other transponders, the symbol rate has to be entered manually.

    Here's how to proceed with the standard and manual search.




    NJVDfma.png

    O3VSsm9.png


    VictorLS,I'm trying to answer your questions during the card presentation.Unfortunately for lack of time, I'm going to post on pieces/fragments.

    You may already know,but before printing,there's a man who deals with the mistakes of the text,and he's called the Corrector,or the clear head/mind.

    Any comment is welcome.

    Thanks :3:


    qwer,Thanks for "Article" section, but it would be nice to have a preview there too :26.

    7 antennas,including 2 of 150cm,one T90 with 16 lnbs
    lnb:Inverto Black Ultra with scalar rings and many Ku lnbs,
    C-band LNB:ESX241,Galaxy Inovations,EuroStar,MTI 20K,NS741U C/Ku,Inverto Single C-band Flange,lnb Chaparral Servo Motor & Skew Control
    LNB Ka:R9216DF XWM,Hughes FSS 19.7-20.2 GHz,
    6 satellite receivers,2 Meters,
    7 PC cards(tbs6983,6903,6590,6522,6209,2603,6909X,6903X,6504),3 tuners usb-tbs5927,tbs5925 & SkyStar USB 2 HD,
    Satellite reception between 100.5E-50.0W,
    Loc:Romania :3:

  • Neither of Montage Tech chipsets has constellation or BLScan options (single carrier blind search). They supports only BLScan2 option (multi-carrier blind search within some frequency range). This is an old known disadvantage of Montage chipsets. Therefor I use STV-based cards for feedhunting or signal analysis.

    120cm offset motorized dish, 22W - 103E arc, Inverto Black Ultra (Ku-band) + DreamTech GTP-D22 Twin (C-band circular) + Triax TKT001 (Ka-band B)
    47.5N 42.2E, Russia

  • IV

    I have never worked with Montage DS3K based devices and so I don't know what they were capable of.Certainly it is as you say,with limitations,like the ones you mentioned,lack of BLScan and IQScan support.For now,after these preliminary tests and CrazyCat's attempts to update and improve his application,it seems that this M88RS606 chipset seems to suffer from the same (internal)limitation{?!).But I hope that either he,or another developer at TBS will find a solution that will overcome those limitations of the old chipset.

    Surely for the same reason, i.e. chipset limitations, there is another disadvantage, the support for ACM/VCM modes are much more restrictive. In fact transponders will always be detected by the card as CCM.

    But I am sure this will not be of great importance for an ordinary user, who only wants to receive or watch TV programs.However for a DXer things are different, because with this card he will know which transponder is really in ACM/VCM mode, and which is CCM.Or if not, at least he will be able to know with more approximation which mode is the one used for that transponder.

    Of course there are other dvb cards that do not know how to detect ACM/VCM modes, at least with restricted ACM/VCM mode,especially those with Silicon chipset.There are many situations where some dvb cards will detect when the mode ACM / VCM, when in CCM.

    For example, the 5.0 W MIS transponders were presented until now as having ACM/VCM mode,because it was found by some cards,say,6983 or 6903x. Now with the 6902se card all these MIS transponders will be found by Crazyscan as being in CCM mode,but more important for all users of this card will be the fact that all PLS codes are auto-detected.

    This means that we will no longer have to manually enter this codes to lock the signal and see the parameters,as it was until now with other dvb cards,even with professional ones.It's a big win for all those who use dvb cards,amateurs or dxers.

    Besides this autodetection of MIS codes, combined with the speed of searching and locking the signal, it is best seen by comparing what each card can do when scanning MIS transponders at 5.0W. And I also used 6983/6903(dvb-s2) and 6903X cards(dvb-s2x),because they are the most performing cards in terms of hardware(see above).

    Here's what a search and scan looks like with the three dvb cards at 5.0W on multistream transponders

    .

    tbs6902se


    tbs6983


    tbs6903x


    The same MIS test I did at 30.0W,where we have three transponders that have PLS codes.The result is the same as at 5.0W,the best dvb card for locking MIS transponders turned out to be again tbs6902se.Same big differences in transponder finding and search speed between the three cards.But it should be noted that it is auto search and not manual,at the last one you can lock and find the parameters just by entering the pls codes,and if problems,then also add the symbol rate.


    tbs6902se:


    tbs6983:


    tbs6903X:


    Although no dvb player has been optimized to scan and lock multistream transponders for tbs6902se card,the one best suited for this is AltDVB 2.4_B5488.And surprise, the player scans these transponders without having to manually add the pls codes,but with one condition,each parameter (symbol rate,fec, mode,etc) must be correctly listed on the search table.And in case of failure then the PLS code is added,as on 11491 V,7522,8/9,8PSK.


    Although the DVB Dream player has not been updated and optimized for the latest dvb cards for several years, and seems abandoned by his developer,when I tested it with the tbs6902se card,the player worked fine and did not pose any problems when scanning MIS transponders.

    I had to add the pls code,same as AltDVB,for 11491 V,7522,8/9,8PSK to lock it.

    [


    Also the same mode to lock MIS transponders for SmartDVB as for other dvb players.


    I tried to test MIS transponders with ProgDVB,but unfortunately,probably due to a bug, the player crashes.

    I add that the MIS transponder,12646 H,13910 ,3/4,8PSK-NURTS Bulgaria at 33.1E,tbs6902se card auto detects it and locked it.

    7 antennas,including 2 of 150cm,one T90 with 16 lnbs
    lnb:Inverto Black Ultra with scalar rings and many Ku lnbs,
    C-band LNB:ESX241,Galaxy Inovations,EuroStar,MTI 20K,NS741U C/Ku,Inverto Single C-band Flange,lnb Chaparral Servo Motor & Skew Control
    LNB Ka:R9216DF XWM,Hughes FSS 19.7-20.2 GHz,
    6 satellite receivers,2 Meters,
    7 PC cards(tbs6983,6903,6590,6522,6209,2603,6909X,6903X,6504),3 tuners usb-tbs5927,tbs5925 & SkyStar USB 2 HD,
    Satellite reception between 100.5E-50.0W,
    Loc:Romania :3:

  • Although the T2-MI (T2 Modulator Interface) signal can be handled by any dvb-s2 card, I thought to show those interested in such satellite transmissions that they can use the 6902se card to receive and watch TV packages without problems provided 1.they have a strong signal,at least 9dB,but better than 10.dB, and 2.have a dedicated application that decodes this type of signal.

    I did the test with this card on T2-MI streams at position 54.9E,which in my area the signal with the 1.50m antenna is at the limit. Even in such reception conditions, I must say that the tbs6902se card worked very well with each PLP multistream, in some cases even better than the much more sensitive 6983 tuner.

    I used the TSReader and 4T2 Content Analyser apps, but I also used the AltDVB player because they all know how to decode and actually play T2-MI streams, but also because I wanted to test the limit to which these apps can manage this type of signal.

    For example, the signal at 12714 V is the weakest of all transponders T2-MI, going down to 6.50dB,difficult to manage the stream by these applications. Or it is known that the TSReader crashes when it has no useful signal to keep the application in working order or the 4T2Constent Analyser is freezing when the signal is weak. And yet, despite this situation, the 6902 card managed to work with both applications without having to restart them, even if the signal is weaker than other cards.

    For example, the T2-MI signal on card 6983 is stronger, with at least one 1~1/5 dB, compared to 6902se, and yet if it drop below 8 dB, then the applications mentioned above either crash or freeze, instead 6902se keeps them working and can restore the streams.

    Here's how the signal looks on T2-MI streams with tbs6983 and 6902se cards and and T2-MI streams at 12714 V with TSReader,4T2 Content Analyser and AltDVB player:



    I have to say that so far I have not come across a dvb card that can cope with the weak T2-MI signal. I think it is the best dvb card, out of all the ones I have tested, to run T2-MI streams under precarious signal conditions.


    Regarding the two transponders at 51.5E,11230 H and 11290 H,45000,8/9,8PSK,tbs6902se can run smooth channels without breaks, with a bitrate of 119 Mbit/s, provided that the signal does not drop below 11dB.Under this value appear artifacts ,such as this one on 11230.This is true for any signal that is received below the threshold.

    This is what a signal with breaks at 11dB and a normal one looks like with 6902se card:



    Because the opportunity arose for an 8K transmission on Turksat 3A at 42.0E, I tested the 6902se card on this program and compared it with the 6983 card. Although the signal with this card seems to be stronger than the 6902se, the Turksat 8K program is running at the same level both in terms of smoothness, but also with few moments of interruptions or artifacts with Smart DVB player. Moreover the bitrate is the same on this 8K program with both cards, of 90.750 Mbit/s.


    7 antennas,including 2 of 150cm,one T90 with 16 lnbs
    lnb:Inverto Black Ultra with scalar rings and many Ku lnbs,
    C-band LNB:ESX241,Galaxy Inovations,EuroStar,MTI 20K,NS741U C/Ku,Inverto Single C-band Flange,lnb Chaparral Servo Motor & Skew Control
    LNB Ka:R9216DF XWM,Hughes FSS 19.7-20.2 GHz,
    6 satellite receivers,2 Meters,
    7 PC cards(tbs6983,6903,6590,6522,6209,2603,6909X,6903X,6504),3 tuners usb-tbs5927,tbs5925 & SkyStar USB 2 HD,
    Satellite reception between 100.5E-50.0W,
    Loc:Romania :3:

  • @satesco

    Can you try and provide CrazyScans's screenshot in underlock (when weak signal - i.e. 51e5 11230h45000 8/9 8PSK not with 11,0dB and 18,0dB as on your screenshot but i.e. 10dB can't be locked due to moving your dish after lock and then close/run CrazyScan with dish standing still dish in 10dB position) situations with 6902se.

    Explaination: my OMICOM S2 PCI usually shows gray Signal/Noise (i.e. I see about 7,5dB on yours 33e1 report RE: 33.1°E Eutelsat 33E but no lock) but TBS 5520SE almost always shows 0,0dB even if I set SymbolRate manually in Carier search and Constellation monitoring like you permanently do while experiments with 6902se. Btw I've asked CrazyCat to do automatic fill found with BLScan2 Frequencies, Polarization and SymbolRates in Carier search and Constellation monitoring to make your experiments with 6902se easier ;)

    Russian Crimea, 1200х1100mm on SMR-1224:103E-30W with Ku, Ku cir (both Inverto), С cir (Alyno CM90) + 600mm 36e Ku cir (GI 301)

    Athlon II x3 460 3,4GHz, 690V, 4GB, 0,5(SSD)+2+4TB, GTX750v2 GM206 1GB (h265 4:2:0 4K hardware acceleration), RemoteWonder, Win7x64sp1 RUS, OMICOM S2 PCI, TBS 5520SE (USB so well receiving less than 111 Mbit/s transponders only); standalone tuner GI HD Micro Plus

  • @satesco

    Can you try and provide CrazyScans's screenshot in underlock (when weak signal - i.e. 51e5 11230h45000 8/9 8PSK not with 11,0dB and 18,0dB as on your screenshot but i.e. 10dB can't be locked due to moving your dish after lock and then close/run CrazyScan with dish standing still dish in 10dB position) situations with 6902se.

    ...

    I'll let the pictures speak for themselves rather than any technical explanation.I'll just say that I brought the signal down to around 11dB and then compared the 6902se card to the 6983, using Crazyscan and the AltDVB and DVB Dream players.

    It can be seen that 6902 handles the signal better at the limit than 6983 and confirms what I said at the beginning of this presentation. I highlighted the differences between the two cards at one of the transponders at 51.5E, which I understand you are interested in.

    Although I did not lock the signal with Crazyscan at 11dB on 11230 H,45000,8/9,8PSK with the 6983 card,instead with the two players(6902se and 6983),I managed to lock and scan this transponder.You can see the results.


    7 antennas,including 2 of 150cm,one T90 with 16 lnbs
    lnb:Inverto Black Ultra with scalar rings and many Ku lnbs,
    C-band LNB:ESX241,Galaxy Inovations,EuroStar,MTI 20K,NS741U C/Ku,Inverto Single C-band Flange,lnb Chaparral Servo Motor & Skew Control
    LNB Ka:R9216DF XWM,Hughes FSS 19.7-20.2 GHz,
    6 satellite receivers,2 Meters,
    7 PC cards(tbs6983,6903,6590,6522,6209,2603,6909X,6903X,6504),3 tuners usb-tbs5927,tbs5925 & SkyStar USB 2 HD,
    Satellite reception between 100.5E-50.0W,
    Loc:Romania :3:

  • Thanks for new experiments (I understand that from a first time at yours RE: tbs6902se ) but all I wanted in my post RE: tbs6902se just picture like tbs6983-11229 H-11.02DB-nolock2021-09-19_19-12-03.png but for 6902se (without Constellation diagram, of course) and moved more far away dish to 6902se couldn't lock 51e5 11230 H,45000,8/9,8PSK (I'm really interested in due to that's most width transponder I can stable lock because that isn't feed etc) as 6983 while you've taken tbs6983-11229 H-11.02DB-nolock2021-09-19_19-12-03.png

    I suppose it must be near 10dB value. My OMICOM S2 PCI like 6893 can show not locked Signal/Noise - it's useful i.e. to find weak SATs/Transponders - I can't do this with 5520se because it show 0,0dB and square Constellation.

    Russian Crimea, 1200х1100mm on SMR-1224:103E-30W with Ku, Ku cir (both Inverto), С cir (Alyno CM90) + 600mm 36e Ku cir (GI 301)

    Athlon II x3 460 3,4GHz, 690V, 4GB, 0,5(SSD)+2+4TB, GTX750v2 GM206 1GB (h265 4:2:0 4K hardware acceleration), RemoteWonder, Win7x64sp1 RUS, OMICOM S2 PCI, TBS 5520SE (USB so well receiving less than 111 Mbit/s transponders only); standalone tuner GI HD Micro Plus

    Edited 2 times, last by VictorLS ().

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